F-86 Sabre Jet - Approach Speeds

[Pete_G]

I have the Section 8 freeware Sabre Jet and I'm generally happy with it. But
my particular download may or may not be the latest. I wonder if mine is
overpowered or not. If I reduce the power scalar then the plane may not be
able to attain maximum speed at altitude.

But my issue is that as I approach an airport, with the throttle at idle,
the plane at level flight, I feel like the plane isn't slowing down below
250kts. Somewhere some document said to NOT engage flaps or landing gear
till your speed gets below 200 kts, like around 185kts, I think.

Would the Sabre Jet have to have the air brake on to slow down below 250?
That does seem odd, but maybe not? On my setup, the air brake ('spoiler'
key) puts a pretty large drag on the plane. I suppose the pilot would be
turning up the throttle at that point. Does that seem to be how it's done?
I'm tempted to reduce the spoiler drag but it's hard to know how much if any
change to make.

I'm curious what anybody else's experience is with either the Section 8 OR
the payware Milviz F-86.

Thanks for any advice,

pete_g
oakland, ca.

[Vic Baron]

Post by Pete_G
I have the Section 8 freeware Sabre Jet and I'm generally happy with it.
But my particular download may or may not be the latest. I wonder if mine
is overpowered or not. If I reduce the power scalar then the plane may
not be able to attain maximum speed at altitude.
But my issue is that as I approach an airport, with the throttle at idle,
the plane at level flight, I feel like the plane isn't slowing down below
250kts. Somewhere some document said to NOT engage flaps or landing gear
till your speed gets below 200 kts, like around 185kts, I think.
Would the Sabre Jet have to have the air brake on to slow down below 250?
That does seem odd, but maybe not? On my setup, the air brake ('spoiler'
key) puts a pretty large drag on the plane. I suppose the pilot would be
turning up the throttle at that point. Does that seem to be how it's done?
I'm tempted to reduce the spoiler drag but it's hard to know how much if
any change to make.
I'm curious what anybody else's experience is with either the Section 8 OR
the payware Milviz F-86.
Thanks for any advice,
pete_g
oakland, ca.

Remember Pete, these a/c are designed for speed and as such have eliminated
as much drag as possible. It is normal to use the air brake to reduce speed
and then drop the gear, or you could plan ahead and reduce power and elevate
the nose slightly to bleed off speed. The air model for the Section 8 is
right on so I wouldn't change anything. The F86 is one of those a/c where
you must stay ahead of it or pay the consequences.

Vic

[Pete_G]

"Vic Baron" wrote in message news:khl7er$o4d$***@news.albasani.net...



">>

Post by Vic Baron

Post by Pete_G
pete_g
oakland, ca.

Remember Pete, these a/c are designed for speed and as such have eliminated
as much drag as possible. It is normal to use the air brake to reduce speed
and then drop the gear, or you could plan ahead and reduce power and
elevate the nose slightly to bleed off speed. The air model for the Section
8 is right on so I wouldn't change anything. The F86 is one of those a/c
where you must stay ahead of it or pay the consequences.
Vic

Ah, the voice of wisdom. Thank you, Vic!


-- Pete_G
http://wakefieldjazz.com/

[Danny]

Pete, the manual shows "Do no deploy gear or flaps at speeds above 185".

If you watch that video I posted last week, it is the MilViz version of the
F86. My airspeed at touch down was about 119Kts. In the cockpit view
replay, you can see the plane begin to shake as I am near stall speed. That
was my second landing in that plane and I have leaned to land it more in the
130Kt speed range. I did have full flap and deployed the speed brake JUST
PRIOR to touchdown. I did use the speed brake to reduce my airspeed earlier
in the flight as well.

Danny








"Pete_G" wrote in message news:khl63u$9b7$***@speranza.aioe.org...

I have the Section 8 freeware Sabre Jet and I'm generally happy with it. But
my particular download may or may not be the latest. I wonder if mine is
overpowered or not. If I reduce the power scalar then the plane may not be
able to attain maximum speed at altitude.

But my issue is that as I approach an airport, with the throttle at idle,
the plane at level flight, I feel like the plane isn't slowing down below
250kts. Somewhere some document said to NOT engage flaps or landing gear
till your speed gets below 200 kts, like around 185kts, I think.

Would the Sabre Jet have to have the air brake on to slow down below 250?
That does seem odd, but maybe not? On my setup, the air brake ('spoiler'
key) puts a pretty large drag on the plane. I suppose the pilot would be
turning up the throttle at that point. Does that seem to be how it's done?
I'm tempted to reduce the spoiler drag but it's hard to know how much if any
change to make.

I'm curious what anybody else's experience is with either the Section 8 OR
the payware Milviz F-86.

Thanks for any advice,

pete_g
oakland, ca.

[Walt_M]

Post by Danny
Pete, the manual shows "Do no deploy gear or flaps at speeds above 185".

Ok, so what about the speed brake? Surely _that_ can be used to
slow the beastie down to the point where the flaps and gear can be
used..

[Pete_G]

"Speed brake?" Yes, Walt. Vic did confirm this in the first reply to my
post. It is a long way from 250kts (at idle throttle) all the way down to
185kts!
Now it makes sense, fighter jets being build for speed. I can see how that
would be useful when descending (diving away from pursuit)!

Perhaps I have gotten too used to civilian and commercial a/c on FS where I
make a lazy descent to the airfield, watching the airspeed bleed off without
the help of landing gear or flaps.

pete_g
oakland, ca.


--------------------

Post by Danny
Pete, the manual shows "Do no deploy gear or flaps at speeds above 185".

Ok, so what about the speed brake? Surely _that_ can be used to
slow the beastie down to the point where the flaps and gear can be
used..

[Danny]

Pete, the speed brakes do have a remarkable effect on the airspeed, but that
is exactly what you would want them to do. . . get the speed down to where
you can deploy flaps and gear. You are correct in that the pilot needs to
be ready to advance the throttle and thrust so you won't fall out of the
sky. I watched one Section 8 video on Youtube and his landing speed was
about 150 at touch down.

I, too, like to tinker with air files and aircraft.cfg files, but on this
plane, it might be best to leave it as it is, in regards to drag factors, I
think.
I personally do not think the producer messed up anything on that one. I
mess around more with moments of inertia to increase the feel of heaviness
and increase horsepower and thrust scalar on props to give more speed.

Danny







"Pete_G" wrote in message news:khl63u$9b7$***@speranza.aioe.org...

I have the Section 8 freeware Sabre Jet and I'm generally happy with it. But
my particular download may or may not be the latest. I wonder if mine is
overpowered or not. If I reduce the power scalar then the plane may not be
able to attain maximum speed at altitude.

But my issue is that as I approach an airport, with the throttle at idle,
the plane at level flight, I feel like the plane isn't slowing down below
250kts. Somewhere some document said to NOT engage flaps or landing gear
till your speed gets below 200 kts, like around 185kts, I think.

Would the Sabre Jet have to have the air brake on to slow down below 250?
That does seem odd, but maybe not? On my setup, the air brake ('spoiler'
key) puts a pretty large drag on the plane. I suppose the pilot would be
turning up the throttle at that point. Does that seem to be how it's done?
I'm tempted to reduce the spoiler drag but it's hard to know how much if any
change to make.

I'm curious what anybody else's experience is with either the Section 8 OR
the payware Milviz F-86.

Thanks for any advice,

pete_g
oakland, ca.

[sambodidley]

Post by Danny
Pete, the speed brakes do have a remarkable effect on the airspeed, but
that is exactly what you would want them to do. . . get the speed down to
where you can deploy flaps and gear. You are correct in that the pilot
needs to be ready to advance the throttle and thrust so you won't fall out
of the sky. I watched one Section 8 video on Youtube and his landing speed
was about 150 at touch down.
http://youtu.be/efXra1PXVZg
I, too, like to tinker with air files and aircraft.cfg files, but on this
plane, it might be best to leave it as it is, in regards to drag factors,
I think.
I personally do not think the producer messed up anything on that one. I
mess around more with moments of inertia to increase the feel of heaviness
and increase horsepower and thrust scalar on props to give more speed.
Danny

If I could tweak it to fly like a J3 I might be tempted to down load
it.<g>
Sam

[Walt_M]

On Mon, 11 Mar 2013 17:27:24 -0500, "sambodidley"

Post by sambodidley
If I could tweak it to fly like a J3 I might be tempted to down load
it.<g>

I wonder if there's a mental disorder called cubomania... :-)

[Ariel]

The F86 when clean (no flaps, gear or airbrake)is slow to lose speed.
Having said that, flying level at 250 kts with the throttle closed, the
airspeed will steadily bleed off to the stall, like any other aircraft,
just not as fast as a piston.

I have come across a number of add-on aircraft in Microsoft FS that
don't have enough induced drag, and fly forever with the throttle closed!

I've never flown an F86, by the way, but I have had a go in an early
F86D (the "Dog")simulator. The boys in those days called the airbrake
the "speedboard" - it's what it looks like. I seem to remember that the
fast rate descent from 30,000ft I did in the simulator was at 80% power,
250 kts with the speedboard - can't recall the descent rate - about
4-6000 fpm I would guess. I have flown other contemporary jets.

Ariel

Post by Pete_G
I have the Section 8 freeware Sabre Jet and I'm generally happy with it.
But my particular download may or may not be the latest. I wonder if
mine is overpowered or not. If I reduce the power scalar then the plane
may not be able to attain maximum speed at altitude.
But my issue is that as I approach an airport, with the throttle at
idle, the plane at level flight, I feel like the plane isn't slowing
down below 250kts. Somewhere some document said to NOT engage flaps or
landing gear till your speed gets below 200 kts, like around 185kts, I
think.
Would the Sabre Jet have to have the air brake on to slow down below
250? That does seem odd, but maybe not? On my setup, the air brake
('spoiler' key) puts a pretty large drag on the plane. I suppose the
pilot would be turning up the throttle at that point. Does that seem to
be how it's done? I'm tempted to reduce the spoiler drag but it's hard
to know how much if any change to make.
I'm curious what anybody else's experience is with either the Section 8
OR the payware Milviz F-86.
Thanks for any advice,
pete_g
oakland, ca.

[Pete_G]

Thank you for this, Ariel.

This caused me to go back again and check the "glide" characteristics of
this plane.

Well, this is an oops. In fact a pretty big one. I wish I could delete my
original post!! I discovered that what I have been flying is a much earlier
version of the freeware, Section 8 F-86. I found I had downloaded the newer
one but the thumbnails weren't in the texture folders and I got mixed up
which version to use.

Anyway, now that I have checked the proper model, I'm seeing that the a/c
speed DOES bleed off (as you suggest) during level flight at 250kts. It
certainly could help to put on the brake and added throttle to get down to
185kts more quickly.

Yes, over the years I have edited a few flightsim freebie aircraft that were
either overpowered or had too little drag (or both).

thanks again,
pete_g



----------------------------------------------------------
"Ariel" wrote in message news:R5O%s.33590$***@fx06.fr7...

The F86 when clean (no flaps, gear or airbrake)is slow to lose speed.
Having said that, flying level at 250 kts with the throttle closed, the
airspeed will steadily bleed off to the stall, like any other aircraft,
just not as fast as a piston.

I have come across a number of add-on aircraft in Microsoft FS that
don't have enough induced drag, and fly forever with the throttle closed!

I've never flown an F86, by the way, but I have had a go in an early
F86D (the "Dog")simulator. The boys in those days called the airbrake
the "speedboard" - it's what it looks like. I seem to remember that the
fast rate descent from 30,000ft I did in the simulator was at 80% power,
250 kts with the speedboard - can't recall the descent rate - about
4-6000 fpm I would guess. I have flown other contemporary jets.

Ariel

Post by Pete_G
I have the Section 8 freeware Sabre Jet and I'm generally happy with it.
But my particular download may or may not be the latest. I wonder if
mine is overpowered or not. If I reduce the power scalar then the plane
may not be able to attain maximum speed at altitude.
But my issue is that as I approach an airport, with the throttle at
idle, the plane at level flight, I feel like the plane isn't slowing
down below 250kts. Somewhere some document said to NOT engage flaps or
landing gear till your speed gets below 200 kts, like around 185kts, I
think.
Would the Sabre Jet have to have the air brake on to slow down below
250? That does seem odd, but maybe not? On my setup, the air brake
('spoiler' key) puts a pretty large drag on the plane. I suppose the
pilot would be turning up the throttle at that point. Does that seem to
be how it's done? I'm tempted to reduce the spoiler drag but it's hard
to know how much if any change to make.
I'm curious what anybody else's experience is with either the Section 8
OR the payware Milviz F-86.
Thanks for any advice,
pete_g
oakland, ca.